Transcript 0:00 [intro music] Welcome to Trendlines, a podcast on global affairs brought to you by World Politics Review. My name is Peter Duri. Can rappers decide elections? 0:14 In Senegal, hip-hop, rap, graffiti, and other art forms linked to youth culture arguably had a tremendous influence on political mobilization. 0:23 Amanda Fortier will later join us to explore this fascinating topic in this week's report. But first, let's discuss some of this week's major stories in international politics. 0:33 With me, as always, is Judah Grunstein, editor-in-chief of World Politics Review. So what was on your plate this week, Judah? 0:40 Well, of course, uh, one of the big stories at the beginning of the week was implimation- implementation day of the Iran nuclear deal, which took place on Saturday and was accompanied by a prisoner swap, uh, with the United States. 0:56 Um, and s- two of our columnists, Ellen Laipson and Michael Cohen, looked at some of the implications of the deal and the, especially the prisoner swap in terms of the possibilities for improved relations with Iran. 1:12 Um, but in addition to that, we had a piece by one of our associate editors, Carina Peiser, which looked at s- the impact, uh, especially of Saudi-Iran tensions beyond the Middle East in terms of Iran's foreign policy and foreign relations, uh, in the, i- in some of the second, second order countries, uh, in particular Sudan, as well as Iran's relationship with Venezuela and Cuba. 1:39 You'll recall that 10 years ago, uh, or, or in the late 2000s, um, there was a lot of discussion of a anti-US block that had been forming between Venezuela and Iran and Carina's piece looks at some of the difficulties that Iran has had with these relationships, uh, given some of the tension in the Middle East, but also developments, uh, 2:06 within, domestic developments in these other countries that have made the, the alarming nature or the, the, the danger, this threat of an Iranian, uh, Venezuelan axis, uh, a lot less, uh, relevant these days. 2:21 So that piece, uh, uh, in addition to being a great piece, really highlights the, the, the sort of l- the sort of thinking that drives the way we cover things at WPR. 2:34 We're always trying to look for, uh, an angle that hasn't been focused on elsewhere, an angle that's not obvious, a second order impact, a, a, a far horizon implications. 2:49 And so I thought this piece, in addition to being, um, very insightful, uh, is also a, a good example of, of what people will find at W- WPR that they might not find elsewhere. Excellent. 3:01 And I understand that you, uh, also had, uh, some interesting stories, uh, or an interesting story about China. Yes. On Monday, we ran a briefing by Richard Bitzinger on China's armed drone sales. 3:14 China's been developing armed drones for a while, and more recently, its technologies and capabilities, uh, have improved, and there were a number of uses by foreign countries that had purchased these drones from China. 3:32 Uh, the most recent was Iraq. There was also a reported use by Pakistan. And so Richard, 3:40 Richard's article looks at some of the technical aspects of China's program, but also some of the questions that are raised in terms of norms, uh, for exports, who, who will be exported to which countries will be able to buy them, and, and the questions this raises in terms of, uh, perhaps China's lower threshold for who qualifies as a, as a, as a qualified buyer, so to speak. 4:03 So again, with a lot of attention, in particular on US drone use, uh, or US use of armed drones in the Middle East, this is again, uh, an example of a second order story or a second degree story that might have escaped, uh, attention and, uh, that, that we love covering here. 4:22 I see, uh, on the website, you also have something on the impeachment procedures against Dilma Rousseff in Brazil. Yes. 4:28 Uh, João Augusto de Castro Neves, and I apologize if I did not pronounce his name correctly, uh, also to, to, wrote a briefing today on the reasons why impeachment of Rousseff is unlikely, but why also between the Petrobras corruption investigation and a, a weakening economy, Brazil's outlook for 2016 is not very promising. 4:54 Beyond that, we also had a lot of coverage this week of Africa. In addition to the great article on Senegal's hip hop activism that you'll be featuring today, we had a country report on Mozambique. 5:06 Now, now our country reports we use to take a really in-depth look at a particular country of interest, and for Mozambique, uh, what's, what's 5:18 fascinating but also in some ways alarming when you look at some of the events going on today in Syria, for instance, and elsewhere, is that this is a country 24 years after its civil war came to an end with a peace deal, and even now with the promise of revenues from natural gas reserves that have been discovered, there's been a return of political violence that threatens to undermine all of this, uh, hard, hard fought and hard won stability. 5:47 So again, a cautionary tale and, uh, about the ways in which the, the conflicts and the, the tensions that drive civil wars take a very long time really to, to heal and to be reconciled. 6:01 And in addition, we also had a briefing yesterday on a- another quiet story, a small West African country, Benin or Benin in English, which is having presidential election soon. 6:16 And which you probably know better than I do. So yes, you had, you had an excellent briefing written by Alex Thurston, who is a really an expert on the region. 6:26 And just like in the Mozambique case, economics play a huge role here. So, uh, y- uh, Benin is in a very tenuous position. Uh, it's reliant very heavily on agriculture, um, and especially cotton exports. 6:41 And in a region, um, that is experience, experiencing an economic downturn, uh, especially Nigeria, its neighbor. And then you have a president who's not running again. 6:52 Uh, the incumbent, Boni Yayi, is respecting the two-term limit in the Co- Benin constitution, a rare feat in these days in Africa. 7:01 And, uh, they-- so you have a wide-open field because the ruling party isn't very entrenched in this country, and Boni Yayi himself hasn't very good control of the political process and can't just anoint his successor. 7:17 So you have a real collection, really a handful of candidates who have a real shot at winning the upcoming presidential elections. The big topic has been the economy, and it's, uh, it's a very interesting race. 7:30 And, uh, while Benin is not the most important country in the, in this region or even in the world, uh, I think it's still, uh, it's still a very interesting counterexample, uh, to how politics are done in other African countries. 7:43 And again, this is one of the reasons why I really did want to cover this election is to show in, in so many ways, Africa is a very mixed bag of stories. 7:53 There are so many elections where the, we know the outcome, uh, beforehand. And in this case or, or elections that, uh, 8:03 where term limits have not been respected and w- and also where the outcome of the election leads to further instability, for instance, in Burundi. 8:13 And so the fact that Yayi is, uh, respecting the, the term limits, I thought the, the, made it a story that I really wanted to cover, even though, again, Benin is not the most important country in West Africa. 8:27 But, uh, as you said, the, it's, it's an exception to a trend of the, the presidents for life trend and something that I thought was, uh, worth covering and, and to, to portray the fact that Africa is, is a huge continent with so many different stories and so many different trends that it's, uh, it's hard to have one single narrative. 8:48 Definitely. And I think our, uh, following report will also reflect that. Uh, thank you for joining us again this week, Judah. Thanks. It's been a pleasure as always. 8:56 [upbeat music] 2012 was an exceptional year for the Senegalese democracy. 9:04 Inspired by rap music, young people went to the streets and into the polling booth and peacefully turned around one of the most hotly contested elections in the country's history. 9:15 Amanda Fortier wrote an in-depth feature for World Politics Review titled Lyrical Protest: Hip Hop and Youth Activism in Senegal, analyzing the roots of hip hop culture in Senegal, how it catalyzed political action in 2012, and its continued political and social relevance. 9:32 [upbeat music] My name is Amanda Fortier. I'm a Canadian journalist and communications consultant that's based in Dakar. 9:43 In the late '80s, um, that's when a lot of hip hop and rap in particular was coming over from the US, from the Bronx in New York and from France, and was, uh, was coming into Senegal and was resonating with the population here, even though they didn't necessarily understand the meaning of the lyrics, which were in French or in English. 10:04 But the idea of this, this imported, um, beat and sounds and style that was coming from, from the West and this exotic sort of, 10:15 um, you know, cultural s- uh, aesthetic was really appealing to youth at that time who were starting to feel quite disenfranchised with a lot of the, uh, political and social situation that was arising with the, the cuts from the IMF that resulted in a lot of cutbacks in education and health sectors, and was stirring, um, already at that time, uh, uh, population, a youth population that was, well, that was angry and frustrated and, and needed to speak out and, and needed the platform and needed the vehicle to do so. 10:47 [upbeat music] I, I think hip hop has always been an effective, um, form of rebellion in Senegal, whether that was, um, in political affairs or social affairs. 11:02 It was or it is continued to this day, um, a means of speaking out against injustices, speaking out against corruption, speaking out against things that, that people were upset with, inequality. 11:15 Um, and that, yeah, I think that that continues to this day. I mean, the only, the only real differences, um, from when it started to today are in terms of I think there's more creativity now. 11:26 I think, um, with technology that's sort of allowed hip hop to diversify in its, um, in its approaches and its ac-accessibility to a greater youth population. 11:38 This has become very noticeable, uh, in since the last elections in 2012 here, because it was the first time that hip hop, um, through music and through the, um, the, the big hip hop sort of figures in the country, that they were able to inform and inspire and mobilize youth like they never have before. 12:00 And it- it's a particularly notable period because before that, while youth might have been interested in hip hop and, and sort of liking, you know, the music and the beats and the styles, it didn't have the same type of militancy that it has now, and it didn't 12:16 It didn't mobilize and inspire the youth that they could stand up for themselves so that they had the chance to offer change as it did during those past elections. 12:25 In the lead up to two thousand twelve, even in two thousand ten, two thousand eleven, uh, I mean, the, the cost of food, the basic staples, you know, rice and milk were, were skyrocketing. 12:34 At the same time, electricity cuts were, were rampant. I mean, they were-- there were some places in Dakar where they didn't have electricity for, for days, really. 12:43 And there was-- that was coupled with, uh, President Abdulla-- former President Abdoulaye Wade's, um, attempt to amend the constitution that would allow him to run a third time, and that was kind of the final straw. 12:56 [chanting] [upbeat music] So, 13:14 Y'en a Marre means, in French, is just the word for, um, fed up or, you know, I've, I've had enough, or enough is enough. 13:34 And it was a group of friends really that, uh, maybe half a dozen or just over, um, as I said, of, uh, artists, rap-- prominent rappers in the country, not just in Dakar, um, journalists and, um, other, you know, 13:51 s-social actors working in the NGO sector, for example. And, and they would get together regularly, and they had plans on how they wanted to engage youth, or how they wanted to act as a watchdog on, on the government. 14:03 They created, or they had plans to create observatories, citizen observatories or platforms for citizen and government to come together and exchange and, and even very grassroot projects like helping communities rebuild mosques. 14:16 So even before this, they really became well known, I guess, n-internationally as well as nationally. They were already sort of engaged in, in very grassroots efforts. 14:26 And then with the electricity cuts and, and starting to write songs about, you know, enough is enough and, you know, don't, don't touch our constitution. 14:36 The media weren't often playing or don't often play that, that watchdog role. 14:40 So these rappers and these journalists were doing that through their music, through their, their problem fares, through their, um, you know, mass protests in the street, um, as I said, non-violent. 14:51 And, and these were the means with which they were communicating in, in a language and through a vehicle that, that appealed and resonated with the youth. 15:00 So that's, you know, Y'en a Marre basically, they formed in January two thousand eleven, so, you know, even a year before the elections. But they really started to, to become 15:12 noteworthy or, or gain attention and, and credibility and legitimacy after 15:18 many protests were organized and when even a couple of them, um, landed up in jail because they were just ready to go that far to defend their rights and to speak out against a system that they no longer felt was working for them. 15:31 [singing] And so, yeah, and they, and they continue to work today. 15:53 They, they work across, uh, the country, and they work across the continent. And I, I think they were significant in terms of garnering youth support to go and vote. 16:03 Uh, you know, they really-- they got youth engaged in politics, and they got them to go to the voting booths in the morning and to show, y-you know, that they cared and that they weren't going to sit around with their hands, uh, their arms crossed and, and let whatever happen, happen. 16:19 That was the first time a really-- youth came out and voted in, in mass numbers like that. And sure enough, uh, President Wade didn't get reelected. 16:27 And I think that was a real wake-up call for, um, for the youth here, and they realized that, you know what? We can, we can make a change. 16:35 We have that, we have that ability, and we don't need to be fatalist, and we can make changes if, if, if we want. It-- Uh, they, they were instrumental in, in engaging youth and mobilizing youth. 16:48 And, and up until that point, uh, there wasn't-- there hadn't been a movement that had such an effect as that. 16:54 And it really was the right group of people at the right time who had the credibility among the youth and spoke to them in a language that they could, they could understand. And, and it's not just Y'en a Marre. 17:05 They've also-- They-- There are also other hip-hop artists in, in other areas, you know, as I was talking the art of call and graffiti or in, um, in the JT Rapé, for example. 17:18 [upbeat music] [rapping] The JT Rapé, for example, 17:40 this is an interesting, uh, very interesting concept, very creative, uh, co-concept started by two well-known rap artists here a few years ago. 17:49 And they're-- Through their rap news journal that is on YouTube, they're engaging people in news, in, in information, credible information, in a way that makes them want to tune in and makes them, them care because it entertains, but at the same time, it's critical of their society, and it's, um, providing information. 18:09 It even appeals to older, older population. Um, and the unique thing about this particular, uh, project is that 18:20 they're not afraid to touch on taboo issues, and, uh, the media, as I was talking earlier, that hip-hop artists are often able to talk about things that the media wouldn't talk about. 18:29 Well, JT Rapé takes that even further sometimes, and they'll be-- they can be quite uncensored in, in the topics that they broach. 18:35 And, and this is important for, important for citizens to talk about certain issues- Yeah... 18:41 and important, um, for them to feel like their, their lives are being reflected and, and this is an example of a unique way that some hip har-hip-hop artists are doing that here. 18:49 Uh, language plays a huge role, and in JT Rapé, for example, there's two of them, and one of them typically-- well, he, Houman, he always raps in French, and KT and Wolof. 19:05 And that was obviously purposeful because they wanted to, 19:09 they wanted to use language to speak directly to, to the people that they're s-speaking to, the Senegalese, and in a way that, you know, they're, they're also gonna feel privileged in a way to be understanding not only the content of what they're saying, but you know, how they're saying, the expressions that they're using. 19:24 I mean, Wolof, there, there's a lot of meaning and a lot of history and a lot of, you know, sort of jokes and, and se-subtleties to words that they use that someone who doesn't speak Wolof is not going to understand. 19:40 And s-uh, that 19:43 privileges or makes the listener f- or the watcher of the program feel that these people are, are speaking to me in my language and i-are touching on exactly the issues that I'm dealing with in a way that, that resonates precisely to how I'm feeling. 20:11 It's definitely more than a protest movement because they started off with very grassroots i-ideas of how they wanted just to change people's lives, and whether that's building a mosque, you know, in some rural community or setting up, um, debate sessions between citizens and, and politicians. 20:28 They, they-- at the base, they want to be a citizens movement and, and not, uh, a protest movement. Um, and I think that is probably one of the reasons that they've been so long, long-lasting. 20:39 They're de-definitely setting, setting up, uh, you know, projects and more long-term programs and, and they're doing so through the help of, you know, international funders, as I was saying, to help formalize them. 20:51 And, and it's over time that we'll see, you know, what impact this can have. But they are-- yes, they work on specific projects, and they're, and they're trying to institutionalize. Um, but at the same time, 21:03 th-there are, you know, a, a few drawbacks to insti-in-institutionalizing and, and one of them being the fact that they won't-- 21:11 y-when you move from being a s-a very grassroots social activist movement to a more formalized system or institution, they're gonna have less flexibility and less, um, reactivity to, to problems that happen on the ground. 21:25 And there's also the aspect that at the base, if they are, um, sort of a hip-hop-based movement and they become formalized too much, their ability to speak to youth populations in a way that will resonate 21:40 might diminish because there might be some mistrust, because youth in general here would have some apprehension towards, you know, formalized institutions. So it's kind of a fine line, I think. 21:51 So far, I, I think they're managing it well across the board. I think that line between becoming a formalized institution and maintaining some grassroots social activist tendencies is, is being managed well. 22:03 But I guess we'll only see, um, in the 22:23 future. Thank you, Amanda, for these insights and for the opportunity to share some of Senegal's outstanding hip-hop artists with our audience. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in this week. 22:34 If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to Trendlines on iTunes or your pod-podcast app of choice and recommend us to your colleagues and friends. Trendlines is produced and edited by me, Peter Dury. 22:45 You can follow me and World Politics Review on Twitter, and you can find links to pieces covering the issues we talked about in the show notes on worldpoliticsreview.com. 22:53 The additional audio used in the report was sourced from the AFP, and the songs you heard were Président de l'Afrique by Positive Black Soul, Faux, Pas Forcé by Yondamar, a special edition of the Journal Rapé on fiscal justice by JT Rapé, and Doc Axacoq by Yondamar. 23:12 Have a fantastic weekend, everybody, and see you next week for a new episode of Trendlines. [outro music]
